Good First Car???

[duke_lover_13]

Hey! Well I have a brother that is about to turn 16. He loves to go offroading like crazy!!! Well he is trying to decide what kind of car to get. I am thinking either a jeep cherokee or a wrangler with a small lift until he gets used to it. Then go bigger. He said he has to get bigger than my old 35in tires!! What do you guys think is a good way to start out?? And what kind of vehicle??

[Gubni]

Most Bronco's will fit 33" tires stock. If you trim the fenders you can get 35's with no lift or spend less than $500 for a great 4" lift.

It's hard to argue with a cherokee though. You can get them less than $1000 and build as you go.

[duke_lover_13]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!!

[pplblazerdude]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!! Which one comes stock with a Locker.

[Country Boy]

What can he afford??????

[duke_lover_13]

around $7000-$8000

[duke_lover_13]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!! Which one comes stock with a Locker.
Discovery's

[Jeep07]

Not the answer your looking for but for a first car your parent's should look for is a 4x4 with a 4cyl engine like a nissan or toyota truck. Why the 4cyl? Its all about speed and power, those trucks are heavy enough to be safe but now powerfull enough to get all crazy.

Teenagers feel invinsible and its almost foolish to buy them big heavy cars with tons of motor.

[pplblazerdude]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!! Which one comes stock with a Locker.
Discovery's In the axles?

[duke_lover_13]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!! Which one comes stock with a Locker.
Discovery's In the axles?
Yup!! I believe they are differential lockers!!!

[duke_lover_13]

Not the answer your looking for but for a first car your parent's should look for is a 4x4 with a 4cyl engine like a nissan or toyota truck. Why the 4cyl? Its all about speed and power, those trucks are heavy enough to be safe but now powerfull enough to get all crazy.

Teenagers feel invinsible and its almost foolish to buy them big heavy cars with tons of motor.
Are 4cyl wranglers any good??

[pplblazerdude]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!! Which one comes stock with a Locker.
Discovery's In the axles?
Yup!! I believe they are differential lockers!!! Hum this is new to me. I have never heard of a Disco with Factory lockers. Now I have heard of them having traction control and the center locking differential thingy in the transfer case but never heard of a factory locker in the axles.

[duke_lover_13]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!! Which one comes stock with a Locker.
Discovery's In the axles?
Yup!! I believe they are differential lockers!!! Hum this is new to me. I have never heard of a Disco with Factory lockers. Now I have heard of them having traction control and the center locking differential thingy in the transfer case but never heard of a factory locker in the axles.
I believe you are right!!! I just know it says diff lock! I thought it was talking about a locker in the differential!! oops!!! thanks for clearing that up!! but whats the difference??

[Country Boy]

Not the answer your looking for but for a first car your parent's should look for is a 4x4 with a 4cyl engine like a nissan or toyota truck. Why the 4cyl? Its all about speed and power, those trucks are heavy enough to be safe but now powerfull enough to get all crazy.

Teenagers feel invinsible and its almost foolish to buy them big heavy cars with tons of motor.





AMEN brother!!!!

[Gubni]

Most transfer cases are locking meaning 50% front a rear. The problem is if a front and rear tire is in the mud you are still stuck. You need lockers in the axles to have a great off road vehicle.

Yotas are a great option. Shop around for an 85 model with EFI. That way you get a solid front axle also. With that much cash you could do some serious mods to it.

[duke_lover_13]

and he likes the feel of coil springs for some reason.... but that isn't a must!! I was thinking something like hilla's red cherokee! well the 97+ cherokee with about a 8 inch lift and 35's. Then he could put full widths on it after a little while!! He drives CONSTANTLY, so he might be able to handle that. He drove my old cherokee a lot! And he has probably driven my rover more than me!!

[pplblazerdude]

1st and for most dont get it ready for the trail. Make it a reliable daily drive. I recommend driving it stock for a bit till you are used to it and are a bit more experienced driver. Then start to build it. Also dont focus it all around offroading. if its a DD you need to worry about DD not offroad.

[duke_lover_13]

Well he also has a motorcycle that he will have to drive. So he wants it to be mostly an offroader. He would still want to be able to drive it to Johnson City or Knoxville with no problem!! But my cherokee with 35's did it with no problem!!

[pplblazerdude]

Motorcycle is not a good Car to use in the winter. I know the feeling of wanting to build a awesome rig and all this and that cause I constantly want to go bigger and wilder with mine but then I think about it and its not smart till I get either another car or a Tow rig so I haven't yet. Doesn't mean I don't still think about it daily cause trust me I do.

[duke_lover_13]

Motorcycle is not a good Car to use in the winter. I know the feeling of wanting to build a awesome rig and all this and that cause I constantly want to go bigger and wilder with mine but then I think about it and its not practice till I get either another car or a Tow rig so I haven't yet. Doesn't mean I don't still think about it daily cause trust me I do.
Yeah! I know exactly what you are saying!! thanks for your opinion man!! I will tell him to keep that in mind!!

[yota31]

toyota!!!

Iam a bit late on this one...but i would go with a toyota...i got my cruiser for 700 bucks yeh that was a still for me...but anyway you could find one in good condition for like 1000 bucks and then have money to lift and put 35s under it...even though you dont need them....the cruiser will do just as good as a lifted vehical unless your rock crawling...or goiing throw crazy nasty mud...thats just me...just look up info about one and see what you get (1989 toyota landcruiser) :lol:

[BrandonFranklin]

hey i gotta a ranger that needs a flywheel due to 3 teeth that are missing but other than that i would take it anywhere now that ive done work to it.. ill sell for 900 cause i owe 800 on my heep.. :-o

[Derrickalda]

and I was thinking maybe a land rover!! :grin: because they come stock locked!!! But it is hard to stick 35's underneath one!!

center lock is not a diff lock my friend......center lock just means the power is split 50/50 between driveshafts

[Derrickalda]

i say don't go rover, and don't go jeep for a first vehicle.

rovers are great but not the platform he sounds like hes looking for.

cherokees are a beater, but hard to lift due to the unibody. And Wranglers are for girls unless its a rubi, but thats out of the price range.

i say toyota! theres nothing negative you can say about a toyota. if he wants a solid out of the box wheeler and great daily driver then find a early 90's FJ-80. great engine, and factory DIFF lockers.....basicly the same set up as your rover, but with DIFF lockers. (all wheel drive and coil springs)

[HotRodYJ]

As far as the center diff lock, like Shawn says most transfer cases split the power equally 50% to front and 50% to the rear. Anytime the vehicle is full time all wheeel dirve or so called full time 4 wheel drive, it must also have a differential in the transfer case. Ever wonder why you can't stick an old Chevy or Ford in 4Hi and drive it on dry pavement? Because power is plit evenly and things can get bound up, just like a spool in a differential when you make a turn, something's gotta give and in the case of a spool, the inside tire will drag and chirp around a turn. A typical transfer case is just like having a spool from front to back. Lock it in 4WD on dry pavement and eventually somethings gotta give, could be drivelines, axle shafts or more likely the chain in the t-case will snap. Any vehicle that is full time 4 wheel drive or all wheel drive has to have a differential in the t-case to prevent the case from getting bound up. A center diff lock in the Rovers locks this center diff in the t-case and makes it push the 50/50 front and rear like ever other t-case does already. You can still have open diff's in the axles.

A typical 4WD with open diffs can end up spinning one tire on each axle in the right situation. A full time 4 wheel drive with the center diff can actually still end up spinning just one single tire if all the open diffs in the system default the same direction. We witnessed Richard doing this at George's and then he grenaded the rear axle trying to drive out of the creek in his Disco. Fun to watch but expensive to fix. :shock:

[Bluegill]

He needs a shortbed Yota 4cyl truck. They're tough, cheap, easy to find parts for, decent gas mileage, and as Vince has proven - with enough skill a stock one can go almost anywhere.

[WesKinch]

PM'd you duke lover

[Ray VanBuren]

Not the answer your looking for but for a first car your parent's should look for is a 4x4 with a 4cyl engine like a nissan or toyota truck. Why the 4cyl? Its all about speed and power, those trucks are heavy enough to be safe but now powerfull enough to get all crazy.

Teenagers feel invinsible and its almost foolish to buy them big heavy cars with tons of motor.
Are 4cyl wranglers any good??Yes

[duke_lover_13]

Well... he told me he didn't really want a truck! He is inbetween a FJ or some kind of jeep!!! I think... thanks for all your help!!

[TiredIronGRB]

Xterras aren't bad, they are really coming down in price. I got my '02 for less than $7K

[Gubni]

Cheerokees (even though unibody) can take a beating and still hold up.

[duke_lover_13]

Cheerokees (even though unibody) can take a beating and still hold up.
Yeah... My other brother that is 21 has had his cherokee since he was 16. He was been EVERYWHERE with that thing!

[NC_James]

I have a nice 4runner I just got... Its a 94. Or will also get rid of a Toyota truck... :)

[MarkH]

And Wranglers are for girls unless its a rubi,

"DOH!" he screamed whilst removing the knife from his back! :shock: :grin:

[Bluegill]

And Wranglers are for girls unless its a rubi,

"DOH!" he screamed whilst removing the knife from his back! :shock: :grin:

I'm over this Jeep bashing crap too :angryfire: I've bit my tongue far longer than I care to. Respect goes both ways.

[duke_lover_13]

I was wondering if 4cyl wranglers can still do like 70-80 on the hwy with like 35 inch tires?? I know its all about the gearing, but how high would the rpm's be?? Thanks!! should he buy a 4cyl?? or save up a little and get a 6cyl??

[BroncoMike]

I was wondering if 4cyl wranglers can still do like 70-80 on the hwy with like 35 inch tires?? I know its all about the gearing, but how high would the rpm's be?? Thanks!! should he buy a 4cyl?? or save up a little and get a 6cyl??

I can't remember the year model of my bronthers Jeep. It had the square headlights. He put 32's on it, no lift and going down down the interstate sucked. He totally lost 5th gear unless he was going down hill. The newer 4 cyl. may be better but I now his was terrible.

[Bluegill]

My brother-in-law's 4cyl 89 YJ leaves alot to be desired on the giddyup, and it only has 31's on it. In most cases the 4.0 actually gets better MPG than the 4cyl, because alot less throttle is needed. Bone stock my 4.0 TJ got 19mpg in town. A 6cyl also increases resale value. Sell 2 Jeep Wranglers that are identical except for the engine (one a 4cyl, the other a 6) - the 4.0 will bring several hundred more dollars.

[SurferSami]

Repeat after me "SAMURAI" "SIDEKICK" for 5000-7000 you could have a really cool sami or lifted kick with 31" that will go anywhere a jeep on 33s will go.

[duke_lover_13]

Well.... He really likes this jeep..... do you think it would http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3ARTQ%3AUS%3A1&viewitem=&item=300097964839&rd=1be good?? why are the springs so flat???

[tennbronco]

well I looked at the jeep and it looks really nice and would be a good buy, With the 4.0 6cyl motor and the gear ratio it should get decent gas mileage and I may be mistaken but should do good on the highway. The other thing is even with all the upgrades and mods it sounds like the motor, tranny and transfer case are all stock from the factory wich means parts are easy to get at your local parts store. I personally would say that if the money is right and the availability is there and the vehicle checks out good then it would be an exellent buy.

[Bluegill]

Doubt it will go cheap, but it LOOKS good - only way to tell if it IS good is to physically go over it. Check out the Rubi decals on a YJ :lol:

[AMSting]

You don't want a 4 cyl Wrangler. My wife's stock YJ has 31s, and 55 mph is a little tough. She drops into fourth when going up hills on I-26 just to keep above 45. Around town is decent, but highway driving would probably be a chore. Still, she gets about 15 mpg, and with the way she drives, that's pretty good. Gas mileage is greatly influenced by how heavy your right foot is.

[SamuraiGuyTN]

I dunno why he did the 2" shackle and 2" body when he could have gotten the same lift out of a SOA.

[Thumpszilla]

I dunno why he did the 2" shackle and 2" body when he could have gotten the same lift out of a SOA.

I was thinking the same thing myself. Looks good though but I agree it will not go cheap.

[duke_lover_13]

well the buy it now is at $6500.... and thats in his price range!! do you think its worth that??

[Bluegill]

$6500? No, I wouldn't go any higher than 5k, and that's only if everything else on the Jeep is in mint condition. Tell your brother to be patient, I know it's hard to sometimes but that's usually when the best deals come around :wink:

[SurferSami]

With boggers, I don't think the gas mileage would be acceptable. Does he make enough to put gas in it? I would look for something a little less built, and here's why.

If he is a new driver he needs to gain experience. If his vehicle is way better than his ability he will get into trouble. (like with 16 yr olds and fire breathing mustang gt) Let him start close to stock and figure out what type of wheelin he prefers, then build the rig to match. As he gains experience he may decide on something a lot different. A built rig will also tempt him to push the limits of the vehicle breaking things he may not be able to afford to fix. He needs to be patient, and start walking before he runs. I have seen a lot of guys with money on trails in built rigs they had no business being on because of their experience level. They often pay the price in parts or getting themselves or someone else hurt trying to get them out of a mess. Just my .02, but it comes fom almost 25 years of wheeling in everything from CA deserts to FL swaps to African rainforests to NC rocks. Some of the other "old timers" may or may not agree, but at 16 he has a long time to wheel. :grin:

[pplblazerdude]

With boggers, I don't think the gas mileage would be acceptable. Does he make enough to put gas in it? I would look for something a little less built, and here's why.

If he is a new driver he needs to gain experience. If his vehicle is way better than his ability he will get into trouble. (like with 16 yr olds and fire breathing mustang gt) Let him start close to stock and figure out what type of wheelin he prefers, then build the rig to match. As he gains experience he may decide on something a lot different. A built rig will also tempt him to push the limits of the vehicle breaking things he may not be able to afford to fix. He needs to be patient, and start walking before he runs. I have seen a lot of guys with money on trails in built rigs they had no business being on because of their experience level. They often pay the price in parts or getting themselves or someone else hurt trying to get them out of a mess. Just my .02, but it comes fom almost 25 years of wheeling in everything from CA deserts to FL swaps to African rainforests to NC rocks. Some of the other "old timers" may or may not agree, but at 16 he has a long time to wheel. :grin: I agree with this and I stated something similar to this earlier. I know this is the way I did it and I wouldn't have it any other way.

[Gordon]

Excellent advice!

[pplblazerdude]

Something else I would like to add is that when you build the rig I think there is more pride involved then and you are less likely to just go trash it cause you can and also you will learn the in's and out's of the rig since you built it. I would get something stock and build it myself. Honestly I think some of the most fun to be had is in the build at times. I always step back from what I am doing and feel a since of pride and say I did that myself.

[NC_James]

Buy it :roll:

[SamuraiGuyTN]

I remember in high school there were many kids that had vehicles for offroad use. But almost none of them go anymore. But me with my little samurai still go (when its able). Plus I don't think there is a vibe that can happen without me knowing exactly what it is or at least where its coming from. But I don't think a mild built rig would hurt him all that much. exspecially if he starts off on easier trails and has someone (like an older brother) to guide him during his offroad excursions.

[SurferSami]

This is also a good time for a father son moment, I also aree with the mildly built rig with a coach. I would also advise open diff at first. If you can drive a rig with open diffs or LS at the most, you will be a much better driver when you lock it up.:grin:

Okay, now you can start the opossing views on the diffs! :wink:

[NC_James]

It is only locked in the rear.
It has a tru trac in the front.

[duke_lover_13]

Well he isn't gonna buy it. We definitely dont wanna buy something before driving it. Well guys I thank you soo much for all your words. Most of the other off roader clubs are MEAN!!! You guys tell me what you think in a nice way!! I like it! :grin: Well he wants to buy something with already a lift on it, becaue my dad and I dont really have all the knowledge and tools...ext... to do all that.. He wants like a TJ with like 33's and stock axles. Then when he gets more experience he wants to do an axle swap. But thanks again for your words!! They sure do help A LOT!!

[SamuraiGuyTN]

well finding a TJ with a mild lift and 33's shouldn't be that hard. I think thats a common setup and would make for a good platform to start with.

[NC_James]

What about a Rubicon? We just got one at the shop this morning.
Also we have a 01 TJ with 35's.

[duke_lover_13]

What about a Rubicon? We just got one at the shop this morning.
Also we have a 01 TJ with 35's.
I dont think he has that kind of money!!!

[Bluegill]

Hard part about TJ's is finding a nice one cheap.

[Jazzman31]

Hard part about TJ's is finding a nice one cheap.

Amen I looked for months till I found mine. I looked everywhere, high, low, ebay, stopped at car lots, private places, asked people if they were interested in selling theirs. Just hard to find decent these days. Especially if it is over 10 years old, then it becomes an Antique Auto.

[SurferSami]

Seems to be where your looking, areas that are not 4x4 friendly, (no where to ride.) Mall krawler TJs can be a dime a dozen. When I was in FL. (Orlando area) they were all over the used car lots. You may have to expand your search. Pray, God can help you find the right one.

[Derrickalda]

i see TJs all the time go for 1200-2000 dollars up here. people buy them thinking it is good in the snow up here. then they come to find out that they're not good in the snow and not warm enough for the fridged cold.

so they almost give them away when they sale them

i see alot just sit under tarps all winter long to be used in the summer

[duke_lover_13]

Yeah... He has been looking for a while... And he doesnt turn 16 till June so he was going ahead and getting a headstart! A few questions for you guys... Like are YJ's a lot easier to work on than TJ's? I know you can do a soa for pretty cheap on them. But I personally like the ride of coil springs. And on a cherokee, does the unibody cause a lot of problems?? thanks!

[SurferSami]

You can build a yj into a very compotent krawler cheaper than most tjs. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the leaf spring set up for seriuos off-road work. The TJ does ride a little better, but you will build a lot more cable jeep for less money with the YJ. I say this because the initial purchase will be a lot less, the available kits are tried and true, and usually cheaper, (especially spoa), and other than springs you basically have the same package to work with. I would never turn my nose up to a well built YJ. :grin:
But then again the Samurai will trounce both for a budget build-up of a trail capable rig. For 5000 I could have a Samurai with 33's with 6.5:1 T-case gears 1.6L FI engine lockers f/r, and all the skid protection you could imagine. That would include the cost of the vehicle if you look around enough. :grin: