long arm joint question

[99NCXJ]

Today i started bolting on my long arm frame mounts that I had made. I started looking into different types of joints to use on the frame end of my arms. I'm probably going to just use factory style rubber bushings on the axle end but want to know what you more seasoned builders would suggest for the frame end. I would rather use something like a rebuildable type end that i can notch and weld the link material to with out having to get weld in bungs and all the mess that comes with threaded ends. I guess I could go rubber on both ends like my short arms are but i'd probably be replacing them more than i'd like.

Any and all suggestions are greatly apreciated.

[99NCXJ]

something like this on the axle end:

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Ballistic-Poly-Bushing-263quot-w-weldable-housing_p_1663.html



and something like this on the frame end:

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/263quot-Heavy-Duty-Ballistic-Joint_p_1226.html

[96 coutry cherokee]

Ive seen ppl use stuff like this http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Billet-Ballistic-Rod-End_p_1655.html as far as "frame" mounts go and the one you have for axle mounts is what 9 out of 10 ppl I see use or something like it


This is the part that I think you should go with I SEE lots of ppl use it I have NO EXPERINCE with it AT ALL but the joint looks to fit your needs

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/QA1-_c_125.html

[Jeep07]

If you think you can get it 100% right the first time then those will work. Adjustable links let you fine tune things.

[Hadfield4WD]

If you think you can get it 100% right the first time then those will work. Adjustable links let you fine tune things.


Agreed. Nothing wrong with weld in bungs. Weld the axle side with the rubber one you had shown, then use the threaded end for the frame side. Also did I see you bolted on your mounts? I'd like to see that. What kind of frame bracing do you have? etc.

[Hokie_YJ]

You should buy the Johnny Joints I posted in the for sale section. :kewl:

[99NCXJ]

Agreed. Also did I see you bolted on your mounts? I'd like to see that. What kind of frame bracing do you have? etc.

Yes, but there is more to it than that. If you have ever seen Rock Krawler's 3 or 4 link setup, the frame mounts are like thiers. Its 1/4" steel that wraps around the frame that is about 15" long or so. It has two holes in it so the cross member bolts go through it, will have 1/2" bolts going through the frame, and I am going to be cutting access holes in the floor to put bracing inside the frame pockets along the length of the mount.

I'll post up a picture of it when i get home.

[99NCXJ]

You should buy the Johnny Joints I posted in the for sale section. :kewl:

yea, but i don't need 16 of them. I'm not opposed to using threaded ends, i guess the adjustment could come in handy. I just liked the idea of notching and welding the links to the ends so I could get what ever size and thickness tube I wanted without having to make sure there was a weld in bung to match it. Plus, the rebuildable joints are pretty cheap to buy and to rebuild.

[Hokie_YJ]

I could probably split them up for you. :icon_mrgreen:

[99NCXJ]

how much for 2 or 4?

[Hokie_YJ]

PM sent

[Hadfield4WD]

Yes, but there is more to it than that. If you have ever seen Rock Krawler's 3 or 4 link setup, the frame mounts are like thiers. Its 1/4" steel that wraps around the frame that is about 15" long or so. It has two holes in it so the cross member bolts go through it, will have 1/2" bolts going through the frame, and I am going to be cutting access holes in the floor to put bracing inside the frame pockets along the length of the mount.

I'll post up a picture of it when i get home.

Yes I like their system. I hope you are doing a 3 link. I have installed a couple of them.

[99NCXJ]

I'm actually planning on keeping the 4 link. My uppers are in the factory location but they are adjustable arms. the lowers will go back to the crossmember mount area like most.

[Hadfield4WD]

I'm actually planning on keeping the 4 link. My uppers are in the factory location but they are adjustable arms. the lowers will go back to the crossmember mount area like most.

Not a good idea. Your uppers will be too short. As the axle flexes down the pinion will rotate down exponentialy putting the joint in a bind. You need to move the uppers as well.

[Jeep07]

Not a good idea. Your uppers will be too short. As the axle flexes down the pinion will rotate down exponentialy putting the joint in a bind. You need to move the uppers as well.
I agree

[99NCXJ]

Hmmm... Thats a good point. I've seen alot of guys running long lowers and stock location on the uppers but never watched to see what the pinion angle does.

Another problem i saw when laying up under it today was if i run the lowers right under the frame rails they will be at a different angle than the stock lowers. The main problem i see is the tires will hit them and rub when turning. The tires rub a little now but it doesn't hurt my turning radius, but this will make it worse. I've seen some that have a bend in them but i'm not sure if i want to do that. I may "inboard" the mounts to inside the frame rail to keep the arms in a straight line. I'll just have to make a custom crossmember and incorporate the mounts into it.

[Hadfield4WD]

Hmmm... Thats a good point. I've seen alot of guys running long lowers and stock location on the uppers but never watched to see what the pinion angle does.

Another problem i saw when laying up under it today was if i run the lowers right under the frame rails they will be at a different angle than the stock lowers. The main problem i see is the tires will hit them and rub when turning. The tires rub a little now but it doesn't hurt my turning radius, but this will make it worse. I've seen some that have a bend in them but i'm not sure if i want to do that. I may "inboard" the mounts to inside the frame rail to keep the arms in a straight line. I'll just have to make a custom crossmember and incorporate the mounts into it.

Justin,

If you do that you'll have to cut the floor do get your upper's 6" of seperation. That is a good number. Also remember the flatter the links the better. Look at Opie's Mid arm 3 link. It is a really nice setup.

Rules of thumb:

6" of seperation at the frame
8" of seperation at the axle
As flat as possible
The uppers should be at least 70% the length of the lowers.

If you really want to set it up right run the calculator.

[99NCXJ]

I may need to specify...I'm not building a triangulated 4 link, just a 4 link with trackbar like stock but with long lowers.

[99NCXJ]

I was playing around on the computer and came up with this. I will take actuall measurements tomorow but this is the basic idea if i were to leave the uppers. You guys don't think it will work right?

The blue arm is the old short lower to show the difference.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z249/99ncxj/links.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

Got your voicemail. I'll call you this morning.

Triagulated 4 link or regular 4 link does not matter. The axle will still rotate down.

Do a 3 link.

Here is a really nice one as well. Keep in mind it's Pirate.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=719402

[99NCXJ]

ok, If i go with a 3 link and put the upper on the pass side, I will have something real close to this.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z249/99ncxj/3%20link%20design/3linkdesigns003.jpg

Thats with the lower arms tucking up inside the frame rails for clearance and to keep the tires from rubbing them any more than my short lowers do now.


The arm lengths and angles can be seen here: Also, i forgot to add the separation at the frame end...its about 4"

Those of you more familiar with proper arm angles, let me know how close I am to getting this right.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z249/99ncxj/3%20link%20design/3linkdesigns002.jpg

And a few more just for kicks:

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z249/99ncxj/3%20link%20design/3linkdesigns005.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z249/99ncxj/3%20link%20design/3linkdesigns007.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z249/99ncxj/3%20link%20design/3linkdesigns009.jpg


If i do the lowers in line with the frame, I would use these plates that I had made for the mounts to weld to. I think i may just sell these now and make something different to mount them inside the rails.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z249/99ncxj/3%20link%20design/3linkdesigns010.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

Justin,

Everybody knows that the Gorilla tape won't last more than 1 or 2 runs.:tongue3:


Seriously that looks better. However I'd make that lower mount lower. That will make that link flatter. Put it on the crossmember you need to make. Then make your flat belly even with the mount. That way there is nothing to get hung up on.

[99NCXJ]

I'm going to pull my crossmember in a little while and see how high i can push the transfercase up and see about making a new mount. It may not be a true flat belly, but it will be better than what i've got now. I'll probably end up making the lower arms mount flush with the botom of the skid. Now if i just had a sheet of steel here...