Gordon
01-14-2008, 09:02 PM
Here?s an update from my conversations with rangers from both the Noli District and the Watauga District. This topic covers only US Government Property, designated as the Cherokee National Forest. This does not apply to any private property, in which case the property owner would define procedure.
I feel that Grace was well received. Our platform of wheeling style; to obey rules, wheel responsibly, be good stewards of our forests, and so forth, is appreciated.
With respect to what I will loosely call ?a partnership with the FS?, I feel that I have gotten a good feel for where we can be with that relationship.
There were a couple major points that I have discussed, things that have been topics amongst ourselves. Abandon vehicles on FS property ? trash/garbage/foreign debris along the trails ? cutting/cleaning back of living vegetation ? trailblazing/varying any existing trails.
There does not seem to be much variance with respect to abandon vehicles ? we are not authorized to move them in any way, although obtaining a VIN and reporting the vehicle (including GPS data, if possible) is requested. We, of course, would be free to view and discuss how we would recover, etc ? just not move them. We did discuss the potential of aiding in a recovery, if & when cleared by the FS, however, I did not get a strong feeling that we would be so authorized, as insurance regs, etc come into play. This is an area that I feel can be looked at and worked in the future.
Trash/garbage, old tires, etc can be cleaned up and removed at any time. We need not seek specific permissions to do this, just clean as we go, and even have a ?clean-up day? as a Grace event. We do not need to ?report in? on this. This was something that would be greatly appreciated, as it is something the FS just cannot keep up with.
Cutting/clearing (as in a general trail clean-up) of living vegetation is something we can do, we do not have to seek permission, but is governed by common sense criteria. The first criteria is that it be on a ?numbered FS road/trail?, as opposed to perhaps a firecut or un-numbered trail that has been blazed by someone, even if in current common usage. This shouldn?t really matter to us, as we use ?official trails? anyway, for the most part. One example of a non-numbered, common use trail is the Bumpus ?cul-de-sac to lunch spot? trail. This trail is not actually a numbered route, but is commonly used. On this type of trail, we can move/cut/push back vegetation to allow safe passage, just not more than that. The second criteria is that we clear no more than what would be required to allow normal safe vehicle passage. In other words, we cannot create a "picnic area" along a trail.
The rationale behind this, is that the numbered roads are ?official roads? (you must have tags/insurance and are subject to highway laws) and thereby keeping them open for vehicular traffic. The non-numbered trails are technically ?non-sanctioned? and efforts to clear along them is considered ?trailblazing?, which is not authorized and can be punishable by law. Now, the common sense ? if we need to cut back a half dead semi fallen tree across the path to continue going up the Bumpus trail, OK, but clearing back all the laurels just so we don?t get trail rash, no. If we see, during the course of our enjoying the trails, some fresh, obvious trailblazing or huge trash dumping (a truckload of old refridges), or a burned out vehicle, we are requested to call it to the FS.
As for trailblazing, we just cannot do it on FS property.
Another clarification that came up is that there is a difference between ?FS volunteers? and ?concerned citizens?. Official volunteers are subject to registry with the FS, a certain amount of training, and perhaps a slightly harder line of ?rules to follow? regarding the volunteer work. For the most part, this has to do with FS insurance regs. Concerned citizens technically are not ?working for? the FS, thus would not be bound as tight by the regs.
An example, which we discussed, is usage of chainsaws. Official volunteers are not permitted to use chainsaws on FS property unless they have been certified by the FS, by taking a 2-day class. A ?concerned citizen? may use one, because they technically have not been told not to. This sounds a bit corny, but it has to do with insurance regs and being officially on a roster of volunteers.
This also ties into why we most likely will not be able to officially recover vehicles. Once the FS clears a vehicle to be recovered, we are not on an authorized list of ?tow companies?.
It is the BOD?s position that we, 4X4Grace, will operate as ?concerned citizens? in our efforts to improve conditions in our forests. From time to time, specific opportunities for clean-up efforts may be posted as an event.
We shall continue to develop a positive relationship with FS personnel.
I feel that Grace was well received. Our platform of wheeling style; to obey rules, wheel responsibly, be good stewards of our forests, and so forth, is appreciated.
With respect to what I will loosely call ?a partnership with the FS?, I feel that I have gotten a good feel for where we can be with that relationship.
There were a couple major points that I have discussed, things that have been topics amongst ourselves. Abandon vehicles on FS property ? trash/garbage/foreign debris along the trails ? cutting/cleaning back of living vegetation ? trailblazing/varying any existing trails.
There does not seem to be much variance with respect to abandon vehicles ? we are not authorized to move them in any way, although obtaining a VIN and reporting the vehicle (including GPS data, if possible) is requested. We, of course, would be free to view and discuss how we would recover, etc ? just not move them. We did discuss the potential of aiding in a recovery, if & when cleared by the FS, however, I did not get a strong feeling that we would be so authorized, as insurance regs, etc come into play. This is an area that I feel can be looked at and worked in the future.
Trash/garbage, old tires, etc can be cleaned up and removed at any time. We need not seek specific permissions to do this, just clean as we go, and even have a ?clean-up day? as a Grace event. We do not need to ?report in? on this. This was something that would be greatly appreciated, as it is something the FS just cannot keep up with.
Cutting/clearing (as in a general trail clean-up) of living vegetation is something we can do, we do not have to seek permission, but is governed by common sense criteria. The first criteria is that it be on a ?numbered FS road/trail?, as opposed to perhaps a firecut or un-numbered trail that has been blazed by someone, even if in current common usage. This shouldn?t really matter to us, as we use ?official trails? anyway, for the most part. One example of a non-numbered, common use trail is the Bumpus ?cul-de-sac to lunch spot? trail. This trail is not actually a numbered route, but is commonly used. On this type of trail, we can move/cut/push back vegetation to allow safe passage, just not more than that. The second criteria is that we clear no more than what would be required to allow normal safe vehicle passage. In other words, we cannot create a "picnic area" along a trail.
The rationale behind this, is that the numbered roads are ?official roads? (you must have tags/insurance and are subject to highway laws) and thereby keeping them open for vehicular traffic. The non-numbered trails are technically ?non-sanctioned? and efforts to clear along them is considered ?trailblazing?, which is not authorized and can be punishable by law. Now, the common sense ? if we need to cut back a half dead semi fallen tree across the path to continue going up the Bumpus trail, OK, but clearing back all the laurels just so we don?t get trail rash, no. If we see, during the course of our enjoying the trails, some fresh, obvious trailblazing or huge trash dumping (a truckload of old refridges), or a burned out vehicle, we are requested to call it to the FS.
As for trailblazing, we just cannot do it on FS property.
Another clarification that came up is that there is a difference between ?FS volunteers? and ?concerned citizens?. Official volunteers are subject to registry with the FS, a certain amount of training, and perhaps a slightly harder line of ?rules to follow? regarding the volunteer work. For the most part, this has to do with FS insurance regs. Concerned citizens technically are not ?working for? the FS, thus would not be bound as tight by the regs.
An example, which we discussed, is usage of chainsaws. Official volunteers are not permitted to use chainsaws on FS property unless they have been certified by the FS, by taking a 2-day class. A ?concerned citizen? may use one, because they technically have not been told not to. This sounds a bit corny, but it has to do with insurance regs and being officially on a roster of volunteers.
This also ties into why we most likely will not be able to officially recover vehicles. Once the FS clears a vehicle to be recovered, we are not on an authorized list of ?tow companies?.
It is the BOD?s position that we, 4X4Grace, will operate as ?concerned citizens? in our efforts to improve conditions in our forests. From time to time, specific opportunities for clean-up efforts may be posted as an event.
We shall continue to develop a positive relationship with FS personnel.