Big Buggy on 44's

[Hadfield4WD]

Some of you know Shawn has asked me to sort out his buggy and do the punchlist for him. What this thread is not about is about any person or company or how this buggy got delivered. I will not tolerate any personal attacks on the builder, owner or what transpired between the two. I will not address it or comment on it. This is not BOD decision it is mine. I will not hesitate to delete the posts or thread. In this I have a zero tolerance policy. Keep in mind anything that I post will be factual and not personally directed at either the owner or the builder.

This is a tech thread. So lets get on with the tech.

First it is not going to be able to KOH legal like Shawn wanted. The rules call for any rig over 3100lbs to be constructed of 1.75 tube. This one is 1.675 and 3700lbs so that’s just not going to happen. So as a result I’ll be making it into a killer trail rig for him.

I’ll mainly be working on the suspension. In addition I’ll be completing some cosmetic, wiring and rattling issues for him.

General suspension punchlist (I’ll get much more specific later on):

The front suspension has 18" coilovers that are limited to 8" of travel because the control arm geometry causes the pinion to point straight down and frag the ujoint.

The rear suspension has almost no uptravel and no bumpstops and the upper link mounts are bent from one trailride and hitting the chassis. And at full stuff the tire hits the airshock.

I’ll be detailing some specific tech in this in regards to suspension dynamics and setup. Actual work will begin in a couple weeks. Shawn dropped it off early so I could start to formulate a plan. Shawn and I have been emailing and talking at length through this entire process to insure he gets what he wants. I have spent a lot of time staring at it, measuring and remeasuring. I think one of the most important things when building a rig is preplanning.

I’m basically working front to rear on this. Shortening the wheelbase 4” as well.

General specs:
350 on propane
TH350
Kluve V
Dana 300
D60 front full hydro
14bolt rear
4 link front with 18” co’s
4 link rear with 18” Race Runner airshocks
44” TSL’s

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/buggy.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/tubemaster.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_5607.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

So I’ve got the current 4 link numbers. I’ll try to explain them. Feel free to ask questions.

The 3 things that are important are Anti Squat, Roll Axis and Instant Center. These numbers are all in the upper right hand corner of the "Main" tab on the spreadsheet and the instant center is on the diagram (although it's not in this one because the way the suspension is set up it's non-existent).

Start with the rear one.
I'll not get into the forces. Basically as you accelerate the back of the vehicle will squat. Anti-squat is the position of the arms to counteract this effect. So a low anti squat means when you step on the gas the rear squats putting good power to the ground in the rear. But very little on the front. As a result climbing up steep stuff the front will pull very little. Also you want the instant center (converging lines of the upper and lower links) at the front of the buggy. This means as you're accelerating you’re putting pressure on the front tires. On this buggy it does not exist, because the lines don’t converge, so basically all the climbing is with the rear. Roll axis you just don't want anything over 5%. That's body roll. If you're anti squat is too high over 125 when you climb your axle will not push the rig it will move under the chassis until it max’s the limit straps then it will push it.

Front
This rear issues coupled with the front geometry that causes the front to rise when you step on it (because the links are pointing backwards the effects are the reverse.) So I suspect when the owner jumped on the throttle the front went up. But also anti-squat also means anti dive when braking (in the front at least). Not really a big deal for a non street driven vehicle, you just want it controlled. But when you stepped hard on the brakes the front most likely dove to the ground.

Now all this to say, this when the vehicle is flat with good traction. As soon as you climb or decend it changes things. So we know where the numbers need to be at static position to get the effects we want.

Also keep in mind when designing a suspension you have to work around things like starters and oil filters. So there are always compromises to be made. I have new numbers which look really good. However the front end area around where I'll be putting the upper links will be really tight. About 1/4" to 1/2" of clearance for some items.

Rear

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/shawnexistingrear4linknumbers.jpg

Front

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/shawnexistingfront4link.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

Also you can see here what the affects of short upper arms do to the pinion angle. (Taken from here - http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12422120&postcount=1) It’s a great way to explain it.

I've seen at least one post by Triaged, (3-link calc creator) recommending shorter uppers and I've seen for myself in the calculator that shorter uppers make lower antisquat numbers.

On the other hand, a majority of the 3-link posts I've searched through, most everyone else recommends longer uppers to help rotate the pinion up when the axle drops.

Equal Length / Parallel Uppers and Lowers:

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/equallengthparallel1.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/equallengthparallel2.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/equallengthconverged2.jpg

No surprise there. Caster stays exactly the same.

Equal Length / Converged Uppers and Lowers: (less separation at the frame)

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/equallengthconverged1.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/equallengthconverged2.jpg

Pinion rotates up slightly with less separation at the frame

Short Upper / Long Lower

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/shortupperlonglower2.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/shortupperlonglower1.jpg

This one is interesting because the caster stays the same until you get all the way down to as low as it will go then the pinion suddenly rolls down. You have to go past the point of it even being realistic to get the pinion to roll down.

Long Upper / Short Lower

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/longuppershortlower1.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/longuppershortlower2.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Other%20Jeeps%20type%20pics/longuppershortlower3.jpg
With the longer upper, the pinion roll up is immediately noticeable and gets more drastic as the axle goes lower. If you want to keep you pinion pointed at your transfer case, this is the way to go.

Hopefully that will help guys like me who didn't know what to think about all the different opinions.

[jamesrw30]

Wow this is interesting, makes me realize how stupid I am to all this. Very interesting and educational thread, looking forward to reading on as you go along!

[JKcaveman]

Keep the info coming! I really like your explanations of why and how you're doing what you are to Shawn's buggy.

[Gubni]

:)

[99NCXJ]

Overall its a good start to a capable buggy. I sat in it last week while visiting Matt. Its got alot of cool features.

[96 coutry cherokee]

VERY informative but Matt normally is :D

[Hadfield4WD]

So here are the screen shots from the proposed layout. You’ll notice in the upper left corner I’ve shortened the wheelbase 4” to 111”. This is where Shawn requested it to be. We are taking it all out of the front. So you’ll see all the dimensions on the front arms shortened. There is a lot of stuff right where the upper arms need to mount so they may need to move around a little due to clearance issues.

You’ll also notice the upper arms in the front on the axle side are widened a little. This is so I can get as much uptravel as possible. This will keep the links from hitting the harmonic balancer on the motor. (I told you it was tight.)

There is a bunch of room in the rear to do what I need to.

Front

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/shawnnewfront4link.jpg

Rear

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/shawnnewrear4linknumbers.jpg

So I believe the most critical part of any project is the planning. I have the suspension mapped out. Shawn wants the front end narrowed as much as possible for visibility. So that is where I’ll actually start cutting. I’ll get into more detail as I do this. For reference here is a picture from where my eyes are sitting the in the driver seat. I’m going to start getting all the items (battery, coolant overflow, hydro steering parts, coilovers, etc) that are on top bars removed for cutting.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6014.jpg

[tennbronco]

Can I have you install a remote control kill switch for me please :)

[Hadfield4WD]

Can I have you install a remote control kill switch for me please :)

I think it would be more fun to put a motorcycle twist throttle on the passenger grab bar.:icon_pirat:

[Gubni]

Can I have you install a remote control kill switch for me please :)

:laughing4:

I think it would be more fun to put a motorcycle twist throttle on the passenger grab bar.:icon_pirat:

:help:

Personally I think a bigger nitrous bottle would be more fun. That little one runs out too quick.

[dixieland delight]

Very interesting stuff.keep the updates coming.can't wait to see more

[Hadfield4WD]

Very interesting stuff.keep the updates coming.can't wait to see more

Neither can Shawn.:icon_mrgreen:

Thanks for the props. I hope this helps some learn how a suspension works. I'll be making some big cuts soon. More to come.

[Gubni]

The propane was getting really hard to start. I rebuilt the mixer, but that didn't seem to help. I traded for an extra kit so we are going to swap around parts to see if we can figure out what to do there. Also I found that the old willis jeeps had bolt on rear view mirrors so I got one for $10.

[Hadfield4WD]

I'll have some updates shortly. It's more fun working on this than my tow rig so I've been working on it. Nothing real cool yet. Just disassembly. However in the next couple weeks I've got some vacation time so cool stuff will be happening.

[Hadfield4WD]

Shawns been incredibly patient. I've had a ton of stuff going on. And he's said it's OK. anyway I've taken some days off next week. Sometimes you just need to get to work.

[Hadfield4WD]

Well Shawn has been incredibly patient. Bringing this up to date. Front axle is out.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6606.jpg

As you can see in this picture there appear to be 2 reasons for the limit straps.

1 – To save the U-joint
2 – To save the coil-over. As the axle rotates down the coil-over actually hits the bumpstop pad.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6600.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6605.jpg

Also you can see form this picture with no misalignment spacers the coil-over joint doesn’t have enough movement and the bottom joint is hitting the mount. To fix this I’ll make new mounts rotated 90 deg so it’s on the bolt.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6604.jpg

On to a little bit of the steering. You can see here the lines going into the cylinder are on the bottom. They then would be exposed to damage. Also making the system hard to bleed.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6602.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6603.jpg

The front is cut off. I’m going to reuse some of the cool dimple died plates so I’ll take some care with getting the last piece of.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6607.jpg

[Gubni]

Looks better already. :)

[Want2Wheel]

Get rid of the Chevy, and run a good ole FORD!!! That is going to be a great rig.

[Gubni]

Yep, but bear money and champaign tastes. One day I'll upgrade to ford power.

[Want2Wheel]

I am just ribbing you.

[Hadfield4WD]

No way would I repower this rig. I runs good. And is dead reliable.

So spent about 5 hours cutting and grinding. It’s would be real easy on a project like this for it to look hacked together because of all the tube I’m cutting off. If you don’t take your time to make sure everything is ground smooth you’ll see it. Although this won’t affect functionality it will affect asthetics. So got the front all ground smooth and most of the axle brackets cut off that I don’t want. Some of the brackets are hard to get to. I’ll be ordering some new brackets and misalignment spacers this week.

Here are some of the pics.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6613.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6612.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6611.jpg

[Gubni]

Any plans to change the tube on the front where it just sorta dead ends?

[Jeep07]

Any plans to change the tube on the front where it just sorta dead ends?

Just for aesthetics? There are lots of buggies out there that do the ends of the front tubes like that. They look fine to me.

Wes

[Gubni]

Just for aesthetics? There are lots of buggies out there that do the ends of the front tubes like that. They look fine to me.

Wes

Yep, the original builder was supposed to loop them together so it looked like one continous piece. It's not a big deal to me either way. Just asking because I can't remember if we talked about it.

[Hadfield4WD]

Just for aesthetics? There are lots of buggies out there that do the ends of the front tubes like that. They look fine to me.


I agree, however I don't have to look at it. Shawn has mentioned this quite often.

It's not a big deal to me either way. Just asking because I can't remember if we talked about it.

But we did not talk about changing it. Just that it wasn't the way you liked it. Honestly I think it is a big deal to you. This is something you requested that didn't end up the way you like it. You don't want to get this home and say, "dang I wish the front end was different". Now is the time to do something about it. I'll see if I can make the lines work.

Shawn, do you have any attachment to the stinger? Because I'll cut it off.

[Gubni]

You can cut it off but I need something there. As it was it servered as a small bumper to protect the winch and attachment point if I needed to use snatch block or pull someone else back. If you cut it off something similar should be put back in it's place.

On my purple buggy it was the high point on the front, so during a roll it took the brunt of the impact which prevented damage to the engine.

[Hadfield4WD]

OK. You sent me some pics of buggy's you like. I was going to do something like that. The motor an winch will be protected but there will not be a forward facing stinger. Besides the highest point on the front end is and will continue to be the coilover mounts.

Here is a pic so you can see what I'm talking about.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/buggyhighpoint.jpg

The purple buggy had coils so it didn't have the mounts so high.

Here is a pic so you can see how big these things are extended.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6608.jpg

[Gubni]

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6608.jpg

Dude, that is such an awesome pic! :eusa_clap:

BTW - cool on the stinger elimination

[Hadfield4WD]

BTW - cool on the stinger elimination

Game on.:icon_pirat:

[Hadfield4WD]

So I have the axle cleaned up for mockup. Once everything is complete it will be pulled apart for paint. You’ll see in several pictures that the chassis was not completely painted. I was asked to paint everything. So once everything is mocked and then finish welded I’ll disassemble what I’ll need to to paint this. Probably the only thing that will stay in this will be the motor, transmission and tcases.

So Shawn didn’t like the squared off front end so I rounded it off for him. There was nothing wrong with the way it was except he didn’t like the way it looked. I’d hate to do all this work and have him get the buggy home and say “dang I wish the front end was rounded off”.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6670.jpg

Also I have the axle sitting about where it needs to be. 111” wheelbase. It’s sitting here at what will be full bump.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6671.jpg

And here are the clearances underneath.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6673.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6674.jpg

All tube work will be done and tacked in. That way if he doesn’t like anything we can change it. I have some stuff drawn up based on buggy’s he told me he likes. This thing should be cool.

[C.Berry]

Great work, great buggy cant wait to see it done! Love the chevy power also!!!:icon_mrgreen:

[Hadfield4WD]

Tube adapters and misalignment spacers are on the way.

I don't like where the lower ca mounts on the axle are. With the axles rotated where it should be they are too high on the tube. So off they come.


Here in this pic you can see. The higher mount is for the lower CA. The other mount I believe was originally for shocks as this had coils on it was used for the limit straps. Both will come off.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6681.jpg

I have some steel on order as well. I will be making all the mounts. I have a pretty easy way to do it. It's easier to get the angles right. I’ll show you how I do this. This will also save Shawn a bunch of money.

Also as I go I’ll be changing/fixing a bunch of little things. Here I’ll detail some of them.

Tranny cooler lines pinched between the radiator and tube. Also in this pics you can see I turned the cylinder 180deg so the connections are facing up, not down. They’ll be protected from rocks this way.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6676.jpg

Tranny cooler hard lines rattling against the cockpit.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6677.jpg

Maxed out joints while sitting level in the rear.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6678.jpg

The floor will be redone. You can see the big hole under the seat with the exhaust dumping out directly under it.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6679.jpg

Also you can see in this pic the pinched submarine belt. It’s so tight it can’t be adjusted. Eventually this would tear. I have new seats and sliders to install and a new floor.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6680.jpg

Also there are no hangers on the exhaust.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6682.jpg

Wiring while functional is a little crazy. Shawn bought a circuit breaker with switch’s I’ll be installing that will clean this up nicely.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6683.jpg

These are just some of the items.

[Gubni]

Woohoo! The difference in reliable is in the details.

You are right about the link mount and shock mount. With the link mount so high it allowed too much axle wrap. HotrodYJ figured that one out for me. Someone told me the proper verticle distance between the upper and lower mounts should be 25% of the tire height. If that is true then it needs 10-11" of separation and only had about 6".

BTW - Check the coolant freeze temp before winter sets in. I think it's mostly water.

[Hadfield4WD]

I have to change some of the items in the calculator for the front. The tire height is a guideline, but when you get to 44's you've gone past where is reasonable. The bigger issue with the way it is, is that the lower link is above the centerline of the axle the twisting forces on these lowers will increase the higher they go. Conversly they will decrease when I lower them.

Because I've shortened the wheelbase I need to do the driveshaft anyway. So I'll get the carrier bearing in the right location to prevent binding of any joints. In addition you can see on the front shaft here the carrier bearing is not an automotive part. I suspect this is actually better. It has nice bearings and a grease fitting. It's cast and seems pretty tough. The problem is if it ever goes bad. You'd have to cut the driveshaft apart to replace it. An automotive carrier bearing is a clamshell design that can be taken apart and is incased in rubber to help with vibes. I'm not sure exactly what I am going to do here.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6684.jpg


In addition one of the lower ca's is bent right in the middle. I ordered enough tube inserts to make a new one.

[Gubni]

Drake at RPM got that carrier bearing if you want to ask him about the source. As for the lower links I tend to bend them on a semi-regular basis. I don't want the weight of super thick steel, so I just lived with it and occasionally rotated them. I thought about aluminum but I am afraid they will stress crack or get whitteled down with time the way I drive it.

[Hadfield4WD]

I think it's all about where your weak spot is. You could easily break a joint if you went to bigger arms then I think you'd break joints. And a broken joint will cause alot of other, more expensive things to break. Coilovers, drive shafts etc.

So your reasoning isn't bad. So I plan on making a new straight control arm. Maybe I could straighten the existing one and put a bung in it and you could have a spare.

[Hadfield4WD]

Bungs and misalignment spacers are here. I have the steel for the mounts as well. I'll take pics and show you how I make CA mounts. It's a little time consuming, but overall less expensive. I'll detail this later.

I also got the lower mounts cut off and ground smooth.

[Gubni]

So with 18" coil overs and 18" airshocks I should be able to the rear axle flat on the ground and the front rotated 90* with the sidewall on the ground?

BTW - I already know this answer - just kidding.

[Hadfield4WD]

I wonder if you could drive right off the end of a RTI ramp.:eusa_think:

[1-tonmudder]

Drake at RPM got that carrier bearing if you want to ask him about the source.

Grainger.

[Hadfield4WD]

Control Arm Brackets
I like to make my own. The ones you can buy from the many suppliers are nice, but I always have to modify them for a custom particular angle. And if I’m spending approximately $15 each to modify something doesn’t make sense. The laser cut ones do have a nice finish cut where mine don’t, mine are just ground with a flap disc. But by using square tube it has the horizontal piece for weld surface and strength.
So to start this is how I make them for heims. The medium heims (3/4” x 3/4” and 3/4” x 7/8”) have a mounting width of 2” when you use misalignment spacers. So I get 2 ½” x 2 ½” x ¼” wall, square steel which leaves me with an inside dimension of 2”. You can get any square steel for your application the process is the same.
I start by cutting them to length on a band saw. Usually 3” to 3 ½”.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00492-20111028-1355.jpg
Then comes hole drilling time. I start by marking my hole and drilling a pilot hole. You’ll notice it’s off set. Its 1” from the top and 1” from the face.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6692.jpg
All done.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6693.jpg
Then I use a long drill bit to drill through both sides. This is critical, because if the holes don’t line up the bolt for the heim won’t go through.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6694.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6697.jpg
Then I go up a size.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6697.jpg
Drilled all the way up to 5/8”.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6699.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

I then put the bolts in to make sure they all go in easily, I do this several times because the heat and cutting can cause the metal to move. I also leave them in when I weld them to the buggy.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6700.jpg
This is the most time consuming part. I use a 2” hole saw to cut out the top. The radius gives cool factor versus a straight line, which I could do with my band saw a little faster.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6701.jpg
I then cut out the bottom with my band saw. I leave the bolt in for this part.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6703.jpg
Make sure when your laying out your holes to drill that when you cut out the flat portion it’s the flat with the weld.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6705.jpg
Flap disc ground smooth.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6704.jpg
All done.
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6706.jpg
I just need to measure the angles with an angle finder, notch them on my notcher, and weld them on.

[99NCXJ]

Very nice.

Time consuming, but nice.

[Hadfield4WD]

It's actually not as bad as you might think. I usually just turn up Dire Straits and go with it.

It also translates in a significant saving to the customer. If you had to buy all the brackets needed you'd be $500-$800 in brackets. I can do these for about 1/4 the price. I am working to keep the costs low for Shawn. This is one tangable way to do it.

[Jeep07]

man that is some time in those. atleast 30 min each i would guess right?

[Hadfield4WD]

30 minutes each? No way. My attention span is not that long. :tongue3:If that were the case it would be cheaper to buy. I have a pretty good system down. The band saw runs without supervision. I have everything set up in stations. So i have a little over 2 hours in all of those.

[Gubni]

Assembly line... just need some child labor to help man the work stations. lol

[Hadfield4WD]

Assembly line... just need some child labor to help man the work stations. lol

That would be nice but I don't let the kids use the cutting tools. They are great at taking off body panels and drilling out rivets though.:icon_mrgreen:


OK so we have a local driveline guy here that is really good. He'll build whatever you want and is fairly reasonable. So I took the front driveshaft to him and discussed the options. He stated that the "pillow block" that is on there now, will work but he questions the longevity. He said that it really should be encased in rubber like a standard carrier bearing. You have a drivetrain that is constantly moving on bushings etc and one fixed point for the carrier bearing. Also there is no way to balance the shaft with the pillow block and if it goes bad you'll have to cut up the drive shaft to fix it.

The big problem is there is no room for a standard carrier bearing assembly. The buggy is just too tight where we need to put it. So we talked about some options. And he said. "What you need is a carrier bearing from a '63 Impala". It's a compact unit that will fit fine. All the parts are availble and on the shelf.:kewl: He also gave me the housing for mock-up purposes.

[Hadfield4WD]

Front driveshaft. Originally this was in the buggy.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6684.jpg


The bearing used while stronger than your typical carrier bearing has no cushioning. It needs to be encased in rubber. The motor/tranny/tcase are all in with rubber bushings and the carrier bearing was hard mounted. Also should there be a problem with the shaft it would have to be cut to remove the bearing and there is no way to balance the shaft. With this buggy possibly being raced we need to balance the shaft.


Part of the problem is a typical carrier bearing has a large footprint. There just is not room in this chassis for a wide base. So I went down to my local driveline shop to pick the brain of the guy who’s been doing it forever. We talked it out and he said “What you need is a carrier bearing from a ’63 Impala”. Jeez why didn’t I think of that? Anyway I’m sure they are used on more cars than that but I’m not sure. All the parts are off the shelf and he gave me a housing for mockup. Here is what it looks like.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00499-20111105-1414.jpg


I also removed the seats, floorpans and firewalls. Here you can see the open space under the seats.


Driver


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00496-20111105-1305.jpg


Passenger


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00497-20111105-1317.jpg


I removed all the floor pans for a couple reasons. First there was no support. They were nice with bead rolls laid out well, but with no support they became dented and deformed quickly after one ride. Second Shawn asked me to make them removable for access underneath, they were all riveted. Third, I need to work on placement of the upper link mounts for the front. Fourth, they rattled and he wants that eliminated.


Back Panel - YouTube


When I removed the pans I noticed several things. First the sub-frame was not tied into the main chassis rails, except at the ends. Second, the center bars (consol) area, are not tied into the main chassis bars. Third, there is very little triangulation on the lower portion of the chassis. As a result I bet there was a considerable amount of chassis flex as well as not much support for the upper cockpit area.
So I’ll be adding a bunch of tube to strengthen this entire chassis.


Here are the pics.


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00498-20111105-1407.jpg
http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00500-20111105-1425.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00501-20111105-1426.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00502-20111105-1426.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00504-20111105-1428.jpg

Finally here is the passenger side combo, rear seat/seatbelt mount.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00505-20111105-1438.jpg

I’ll be adding mounts for the belts. And since we are changing seats these will all be removed.

[Gubni]

I rolled my old buggy a dozen times if I had to guess. I plan to keep this one longer, so probably will roll it more. That means tiangulation is important, but at the same time you can defy gravity with a tank. What that means is that we will add triangulation and more bars, but we will be placing it only where it's needed most.

[Hadfield4WD]

Absolutely true. I'm a firm believer in structure and design. You just can't through tube at something and hope it will hold. It has to be placed in the right location. And all the ends should terminate in nodes. This adds to the strength. I actually will be cutting tube out of the rear and placing strategically. It will also look better.

With the floors out I will be able to get the uppers laid out and hopefully tacked in shortly. I'll have to mess with the calculator a bit as well on placement.

[Gubni]

Heard a rumor we might be getting some more updates during the next two weeks. :-)

[Want2Wheel]

Rumor ONLY!!!!

[Hadfield4WD]

All rumors are based at least in some way on fact.:icon_mrgreen:

Yes much updates are forthcoming.

[Gubni]

All rumors are based at least in some way on fact.:icon_mrgreen:

Yes much updates are forthcoming.

So the rumor that our ecomony is doing better actually has some fact in it? I thought it was all propeganda spread by Obama like a farmer spreads fertilizer.

[Hadfield4WD]

So the rumor that our ecomony is doing better actually has some fact in it? I thought it was all propeganda spread by Obama like a farmer spreads fertilizer.

You never know. It could be a government conspiracy to cover up the fact the Jimmy Hoffa is not buried in Giant stadium, but Elvis is. Jimmy Hoffa is not dead, he is doing Elvis impersonations in Vegas, I saw him when I was there. Apparently he also has the authority to join people in Holy Matrimony.:cool:

Smoke and mirrors.

Where's my tinfoil hat?

[Gubni]

Where's my tinfoil hat?

I'm guessing your wife took it to cook Chirstmas dinner in it. :tongue3:

[Gubni]

Cool pics will be coming soon. Front suspension is almost done. Next project - exhaust.

[Hadfield4WD]

I’ve mocked up the front a total of 5 times. Finally have it tacked in to where I’m happy with it. The main rails on the buggy are 27” wide so it just doesn’t leave a lot of room. Here is everything sitting at full bump. You can see the clearances are real tight. ½” to the starter in 2 places. I had to turn the mount so the bolt it vertical to get it to fit. Everything is just tacked in at this point. Gussets and braces will be added. I was able to shorten an existing lower control arm. One was bent so I made a new one of these. When I started measuring the upper arms I realized that the length was exactly the same as the existing upper on the rear. As I’m fixing those mounts as well. I just took those off and put them on the front. I don’t think I could have planned that. A couple of the heim joints are spitting out their plastic so I think we’ll just replace those. Everything will be removed, sanded and painted when everything is done. Anyway here are the front link pictures.

In progress.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7039.jpg

Upper passenger side.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7046.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7045.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7043.jpg

View from the transfer case. Just enough room for the driveshaft.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7044.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7042.jpg

Also the headers are posing a large problem. There is no place inside the rails to run the exhaust. Not possible down the passenger side. There is a possibility I could run it down the driver side but I can’t get the passenger side over. I thought about under the oil pan etc. Just won’t fit. Shawn told me I could cut up the existing headers to see if I could make them work. We’ll see. It was tight enough that I had to cut everything off to get it out. I was getting tired of thinking about it so I moved to bracing the sub-frame. Sometimes it helps to come back to it.
Subframe before. Notice it’s not braced to the main frame rails or across the chassis. I’ll add some bracing that will really stiffen up the chassis. There were a lot of broken rivets and I think it was do to chassis flex. Here is the start.

Before

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7048.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7047.jpg

After

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7050.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7049.jpg

Again it’s just tacked in. When the entire chassis is tacked in and all the suspension is cycled then I’ll weld everything up.

[TNjeeper97]

Exhaust...turn the headers straight up, header mount glass packs, and the little tractor exhaust "flappers" like on the mud racers :icon_pirat:. That way as the engine runs you get that little "tink, tink, tink, tink" sound.


Probably not an option and I'm mainly joking, but..........

[99NCXJ]

Man... it would have been easier to just start over and build one from scratch huh?

[Gubni]

Man... it would have been easier to just start over and build one from scratch huh?

Well I could have bought a second buggy for what I have paid to modify this one, but I can't change the past - only the future.

[Hadfield4WD]

Well I could have bought a second buggy for what I have paid to modify this one, but I can't change the past - only the future.

Yep we went over this. For the cost into this buggy (original construction and my repair) he could have had a Jimmy Smith. we even discussed this he had a bunch invested already. And the basics aren't bad on this. There are some cool aspects.

[Gubni]

How about taking the exhaust closer to the pedals and rework the floor so it's at a 45* instead of a 90 at that corner?

[Hadfield4WD]

This might work. Waiting on a dimension from Summit.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9014/

[ParadisePWoffrD]

what about some "outside the frame" type headers, then run the exhaust pipes down outside the subframe, under the floor?

[Hadfield4WD]

what about some "outside the frame" type headers, then run the exhaust pipes down outside the subframe, under the floor?

That's what I need, but I have a triangle that they need to fit in the is about 10" x 10". The header that were built for this buggy are just that, except they come straight down. You can see them in this picture.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6671.jpg

If I use the truck headers I can make the rest to fit that hole.

Here is the hole I need to hit.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_6612.jpg

I just need to see where the collector is in regards to the engine block. This way I can see where I can buld the rest.

[Gubni]

The first set I bought was a kit to build your own. I dont remember why we took them off and got these.

[fivetreoh]

Just have them dump out into the chassis tubing with some of that flexible exhaust hose... :eusa_think:

j/k... :icon_mrgreen:

[Hadfield4WD]

The first set I bought was a kit to build your own. I dont remember why we took them off and got these.

The ones that were on it, that exit straight down were the build your own.

[Gubni]

This might work. Waiting on a dimension from Summit.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G9014/

Ordered with a set of collectors shipped to you.

[Hadfield4WD]

Ordered with a set of collectors shipped to you.

:kewl:

Sweet.

[Hadfield4WD]

As I wait for headers I did some more bracing to the back of the main compartment. The console area is completely tied in. This will really help in a rollover. I still have the upper portion to do. The rear is extremely “busy” so I’ll clean it up and make it safer. Here are the pics.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7051.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7052.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7053.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7056.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7057.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7055.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7054.jpg

I’ll also be making changes to the pedals. I’ll bring them closer.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7059.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/102_7058.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

Just placed another small order with ruff stuff. I was able to use the 15% discount.

[garlandg]

how did you attach the upper rear links to the axle? lookin for ideas for my build.

[Hadfield4WD]

On a rear truss you can see in this picture.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/P4190053.jpg

[Gubni]

Any more flex pics? IF the tank strap was out of the way is there enough clearance for the shock? The tire at full compression needs to have over 1" of clearance to keep from rubbing. I don't know how much, but with 1" of clearance the paint gets worn off the shock.

[Hadfield4WD]

Any more flex pics? IF the tank strap was out of the way is there enough clearance for the shock? The tire at full compression needs to have over 1" of clearance to keep from rubbing. I don't know how much, but with 1" of clearance the paint gets worn off the shock.

That was a flex pic you sent me on your rti. I have no more flex pics. I'll get some when I set up the co's.

[Hadfield4WD]

So as you know we’ve had a hard time getting headers to work on this has been a chore. The ones that came on it were highly exposed to rocks and damage. They were completely unprotected. So we got a set that looked like they’d work from Summit. They are close. Front to back they are perfect. Here are the pictures.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/header2.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/header1.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/header3.jpg

All these need is these spaced 3 ½”. I spoke to Shawn about a complete custom job but it was “cost prohibitive”. These flanges are really nice and beafy so I’ll be cutting them off and spacing them. Should work out nicely.

Also my order from Ruffstuff showed up as well.

[Hadfield4WD]

Got the headers done. I didn’t want to space them completely out 3 ½” and the front portion would protrude outside the frame rail. So I gradually did it. You’ll see in the pics.

Front tubing coming next.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/header4.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/header6.jpg

[SamuraiGuyTN]

Looks Good

[tennbronco]

any new updates ?????

[Hadfield4WD]

Yep but it's not overly exciting. Just making the custom tabs for the coilovers and measuring for the front tube work which I should have bent today. Then I'll post up pics.

[Hadfield4WD]

Been working. Figured I’d add some updates.

The front of the chassis is done and welded about 90%. I’ll be going over the entire chassis with a fine tooth comb at the end to make sure everything is done. I am happy with how it came out. To answer the questions. Yes, the radiator comes out. Yes the winch will come in and out. No the motor will not come out. At least assembled I suspect if you pulled it all apart and got to the block it would come out. Our decision on this had to do with strength. Should Shawn decide to do motor work or change the motor he can either take it out in pieces or cut the tube out and add flanges so the tubes can be installed and removed. We decided not to do the flanges at this point.

Here are the pics everybody wants to see anyway.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/final6.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/final8.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/final9.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/final11.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/final12.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/final13.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

Lets talk slugs. No not the kind you put salt on as a kid! These are the ones that go inside tube when you join 2 but ends together. This is basically how it’s done. Insert a smaller piece of tube into the tube and tack it in. The insert the entire piece thing together leaving a small gap. This gap allows you to weld the slug to the existing tube. The weld the entire thing and grind it smooth.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/slug1.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/slug2.jpg

And as I didn’t have the utmost confidence in the chassis I drilled some holes in existing butt end connects and did not find slugs. So I’ll be adding some items there for reinforcement. More on this to come later.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/slug3.jpg

[Horton]

Lets talk slugs. No not the kind you put salt on as a kid! These are the ones that go inside tube when you join 2 but ends together. This is basically how it’s done. Insert a smaller piece of tube into the tube and tack it in. The insert the entire piece thing together leaving a small gap. This gap allows you to weld the slug to the existing tube. The weld the entire thing and grind it smooth.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/slug1.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/slug2.jpg

And as I didn’t have the utmost confidence in the chassis I drilled some holes in existing butt end connects and did not find slugs. So I’ll be adding some items there for reinforcement. More on this to come later.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/slug3.jpg

Not trying to start anything!!!.....but that is NOT the proper way to do slugs!....WEAK!

[99NCXJ]

There is another way? That's how I've always seen it done and have done it that way myself. The slugs I have in a few places on my cage are about 4" long.

[HANO]

So instead of just calling him out and offering nothing in return, maybe you can contribute to the thread in a positive manner by giving us your method. Other than WEAK!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[HANO]

There is another way? That's how I've always seen it done and have done it that way myself. The slugs I have in a few places on my cage are about 4" long.

My technique is similar. If I am joining two pieces of tube, I'll drill through one side of the tube and out the otherside and do the same on the second piece of tube. I then use those pieces to sleeve over the smaller tube leaving a small, small gap with chamfered edges. I then plug/rosette weld the outer tube, to the sleeved tube through the predilled holes, and then weld the gap all the way around. It aint going anywhere.

[Horton]

So instead of just calling him out and offering nothing in return, maybe you can contribute to the thread in a positive manner by giving us your method. Other than WEAK!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Sure......the slug needs to be at least 2in in each side and need to be plug welded in 4 places on each side....drill 2 holes vert about 1/2in back then 2 holes horz about an 1 1/4 back then weld up your gap as said.....now you are not just depending on a ring weld which is not very much better than a butt weld.....and grinding a weld down is never good

[Horton]

My technique is similar. If I am joining two pieces of tube, I'll drill through one side of the tube and out the otherside and do the same on the second piece of tube. I then use those pieces to sleeve over the smaller tube leaving a small, small gap with chamfered edges. I then plug/rosette weld the outer tube, to the sleeved tube through the predilled holes, and then weld the gap all the way around. It aint going anywhere.

ding! ding!....you got it dude!!...i found out the hard way...on a chopper frame i built....the vibration will break a ring weld

[Hadfield4WD]

Sure......the slug needs to be at least 2in in each side and need to be plug welded in 4 places on each side....drill 2 holes vert about 1/2in back then 2 holes horz about an 1 1/4 back then weld up your gap as said.....now you are not just depending on a ring weld which is not very much better than a butt weld


ding! ding!....you got it dude!!...i found out the hard way...on a chopper frame i built....the vibration will break a ring weld

I've always done it this way and never had a problem or one break. however I don't doubt your knowledge. Basically you mean ad some plug welds to the side. That can be done.

On the same note since we are on it. I am cutting out most of the butt welds that are unslugged on the chassis as I am changing alot. However there is one that pretty much can't be. I have some ideas on how to fix this which I won't share yet because I don't want to taint anybody's ideas. What would you think on fixing these?

[HANO]

ding! ding!....you got it dude!!...i found out the hard way...on a chopper frame i built....the vibration will break a ring weld

I could only imagine the vibes from a rigid chopper. I bet there is some sketchy frames rolling around out there

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[Horton]

I've always done it this way and never had a problem or one break. however I don't doubt your knowledge. Basically you mean ad some plug welds to the side. That can be done.

On the same note since we are on it. I am cutting out most of the butt welds that are unslugged on the chassis as I am changing alot. However there is one that pretty much can't be. I have some ideas on how to fix this which I won't share yet because I don't want to taint anybody's ideas. What would you think on fixing these?

post up a pic of what you are talking about

[Horton]

I could only imagine the vibes from a rigid chopper. I bet there is some sketchy frames rolling around out there

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

its scary of some of the ones i have fixed.....if you have to drive the slug in and ring weld it you can ride the bike around a few days and cut the ring weld and the slug will fall out

[Hadfield4WD]

post up a pic of what you are talking about

Both A pillars in between the 2 holes, where I drilled looking for slugs.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7105.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7106.jpg

[99NCXJ]

If you can't access a butt joint to cut it apart and slug it you could cut the back (or the face) out and essentially put a slug in from the side, weld it back up and maybe add a gusset.

[99NCXJ]

Oh wow. That is not somewhere you want a butt joint.

[99NCXJ]

I had to do the same method I mentioned above on flint's yj stinger a while back. With the angle of the tube I couldn't slug both ends and slide it together so it got a cut away side installed slug and welds up clean. Turned out ok considering I was dealing with bent tubing that was damaged to begin with.

[Hadfield4WD]

Either way its going to get an external gusset. Like I said I have an idea but before I post up the drawing I'd like to see what you guys think of.

[Horton]

Oh wow. That is not somewhere you want a butt joint.

Nope....would not even try to fix....the main cage hoops should be one peice of tube....i know it would be a major pain to cut the top off...but I would not do it any other way...just my 2cents

[HANO]

Wow. That is some ridiculous tube work. I'm with Horton on this one, I don't think you can gusset that in a manner that would be strong enough. Cutting the roof, and sleeving it correctly would be the only repair I can see as a feasible "clean looking " option aside from just completely redoing it.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

[Gubni]

If you can't slug the inside then how about slug the outside? The other idea I have would be add triangulation so it doesn't matter.

[HANO]

You could split a larger section of tube and place it around that joint but I think it would look pretty sketch. It certainly would be stronger than what you had. Im glad you didnt hard roll that rig and get hurt

[highrolrcustoms]

i dont think this buggy will every be on its roof.....:icon_lol: i was thinkin the same thing as shawn as far as a larger outer tube....cut the tube vertical leaving 1/8" gap at joint and fill with weld so it penetrates into inner tube and also plug weld around the top and bottom

on another note....its really comming together.:kewl:..i better get back to work on mine....im falling behind

[highrolrcustoms]

quick drawing of what i was talking about....everything in blue is the weld. also have a vertical weld on back side of the tube also

excuse the childish drawing..im at work and dont have my CAD program...:icon_lol:

[Hadfield4WD]

Here is what I had. This is FAA standards. Look at page 67. I figure if it's for an airplane so it should work well. This is for repair of cracked and broken tube that is structurally compromised.

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY/RGADVISORYCIRCULAR.NSF/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter%2004.pdf

[Horton]

i am guessing the buggy is DOM...DOM is a seamed tube...welding length ways is not good...now if it were seamless it would be a different story.....doing a external sleeve will be just as weak...you just made 2 weak spots at each end of the sleeve patch

[Hadfield4WD]

Yes it's DOM. If we use the theory that a weld end will make it weaker then we shouldn't weld on a chassis at all.

So I called my brother who is a certified airplane welder. In the regulation I posted the lengthwise weld is not welded to the existing tube it is the formed sleeve welded to itself. The fishmouths on the ends will alleviate a single stress point. Plus the 4 rosette welds. He did confirm that if you welded lengthwise to the base material would weaken it.

They fix tubes like this all the time. And the FAA is one the most regulated form of transportation with testing to back it up.

Plus there will be other external gussets.

[HANO]

I say go for it. It's just Shawn we're talking about ! (soo tongue in cheek!)

I think you're fine with your plan Matt. My issue it not with strength, but doing in it way that doesn't draw attention to it. I think your external sleeving will suffice for the shear issue with the butted up tube.

[Gubni]

I plan to test it thoroughly! Where do you think the best place to give it a good flip would be? This rock still owes me one.

http://www.mustangfarm.com/forum/gubni.gif

[jamesrw30]

I really enjoy this thread, just wish I was smart enough to have input. Shawn, that is a gnarly flip brother.

[Gubni]

I spent a few hours with Matt today. I think we got most of the planning done which is the hard part. This is turning out better than I had hoped. I couldn't ask for a better builder that truely has my interest and happiness as his goal in his work.

[Thumpszilla]

[QUOTE=jamesrw30;180999]I really enjoy this thread, just wish I was smart enough to have input. QUOTE]

X2 I have learned alot from this forum over the years.

[Hadfield4WD]

Thanks Shawn

[Hadfield4WD]

Thanks Shawn

[Hadfield4WD]

Haven’t updated this in a while.

This is a little out of order as to how I actually built it, but it’s for thread continuity.

This is what I did as far as the butt welded tube.

Here is what I had. This is FAA standards. Look at page 67. I figure if it's for an airplane so it should work well. This is for repair of cracked and broken tube that is structurally compromised.

http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY/RGADVISORYCIRCULAR.NSF/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter%2004.pdf

Here is the plate.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00010-20120406-1614.jpg

And welded on.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00012-20120406-1654.jpg

Also got the door bars finished up. Shawn wanted the F250 door look. So I think we accomplished that. The seat mounts are tacked in as well.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7241.jpg

I cut the back off and redid the tube. This is much cleaner looking and stronger. You may be able to tell in the pics that the console is off center. I did center the upper bars so it didn’t look funny and you won’t really be able to see the lowers when this thing is together.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00014-20120406-1718.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00016-20120406-1720.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7240.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7239.jpg

[Hadfield4WD]

Visor to keep rain off the steering wheel.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/IMG00028-20120414-1632.jpg

Finally some overall shots of the buggy, notice the rear area. Just need the cross braces and the propane cylinder mounts. I really like the overall look of the buggy.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7247.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7245.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7244.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7248.jpg

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k51/hadfield4wd/Shawns%20Buggy/100_7250.jpg

[Horton]

I dont think i would be worried about FAA standards....i think i would be looking in to NHRA or IHRA standards....if an airplane rolls over on the ground its pretty much toast anyway