More Mods for the HotRodYJ

[HotRodYJ]

Since I made a Twizzler out of my rear d-shaft...

http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/dshaft.jpg

http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/100_0411.jpg

I decided to go ahead and make another major chage. My justification? So I can fit a much larger, normal diameter, normal U-joint d-shaft back in there of course. The good ole red YJ now has the rear axle moved about 12" to the rear. I don't know for sure just how far it is, I just rolled it back till it looked about right, but it's in the 12-13" range.

I decided to use a conventional 4 link set-up with the 4 main links more or less parralel to the frame and a trac bar to handle the side to side duties. More like a conventional TJ suspension. In my mind this arrangement should be stronger and more forgiving. If I bend a link or break a mount, then I should still be okay. Trying to build reliability into it as much as I can, although it's niot been very reliable lately. :cry: This straight arrangement also keeps me from having to rework the exhaust right now although I did build the upper frame mounts such that I can triangulate the upper links in the fiuture if I ever decided to.

I cut the quarters out last night and the 4 main links are already in place and done. Working on coil location and mounts next and then the trac bar and shocks. Then I can cut a new d-shaft and plumb the fuel system again from inside rather than underneath.

Pics to come when I get around to taking them and loading them up. :lol: In the meantime just picture something kind of like this only in red.

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k183/bluebanger/project%20buld%20up/jeepbuildup024.jpg


Thanks bluecrawler for the ideas, hope you don't mind copycat mods. I've actually had the DOM, rod ends, and link mounts fabbed for quit sometime, but seeing your pics got me motivated again and the driveshaft deal pushed me over the edge to go ahead and start cutting.

[Want2Wheel]

There is nothing like being pushed a little to do something. That is going to look good.

[Bluegill]

;-)
Wish you could've rode Harlan with us & checked out Tony's (admar2) 4-link rear setup on his YJ - it was really sweet 8)

[pplblazerdude]

Dang I cant wait to see this. Its going to be nice.

[HotRodYJ]

;-)
Wish you could've rode Harlan with us & checked out Tony's (admar2) 4-link rear setup on his YJ - it was really sweet 8)

I looked up his pics on ItsaJeep. Pretty cool set-up

[Pitch]

Can't wait to see the pics.

[Hokie_YJ]

I'd heard through the grapevine that something was going down in the "HotRod Garage". :lol: Can't wait to see it done. I'll have to bring those tires back to you soon so I can get a look at it.

[Dino1967]

:smokin:

[Junkster]

About time you posted this! :lol: I have been waiting to hear that it was cut. Did you figure out the tail lights?

[Gordon]

:smokin:

[HotRodYJ]

About time you posted this! :lol: I have been waiting to hear that it was cut. Did you figure out the tail lights?

Probably end up with LED's in the bumper.

[TiredIronGRB]

HOW ABOUT SOME PICTURES?

[HotRodYJ]

OKAY OKAY!! Here she is parked on my portable work bench :lol:

http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_100_0447.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_100_0444.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_100_0448.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_100_0446.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_100_0451.jpg
Frame Mounts...
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_100_0450.jpg

Still lots to do obviousley. More trimming to do on the rear of the tub to clean that area up. Taillights will have to move, etc. This puts me somewhere around 108-109" wheelbase. Stock was 94" :shock:

[TiredIronGRB]

Cool :smokin:

[BillM]

Too sweet Brian.

[pplblazerdude]

Quick question. Will the upper links not bind up real quick in the way that they are mounted? I am just wondering.

[Want2Wheel]

Very nice.

[HotRodYJ]

Quick question. Will the upper links not bind up real quick in the way that they are mounted? I am just wondering.

Nope. I used to think the same thing but some buggies are starting to mount the frame end this way. If the heim were to stay flat then yes it would tend to bind pretty quickly, but in reality the heim still rotates to some angle, similar to where it could go to if it were mounted in the typical horizontal. The heim body rotating away from horizontal is what allows it to stilll move freely. I've seen and talked with other guys who mounted them this way and they say they work just fine in this position and have pics to back it up. The only reason I mounted this way is so I could go to triangulated uppers if I want to latter on without having to change this mount.

I'm not really going for the flex record either so I'm confident they will have plenty of travel to meet my needs. My only reason for 4 link is axle control and better ride quality, not really looking for that much more flex anyway. Only way to know for sure how it's going to work is to test it. If it proves not to work so well, I'll change it... no big deal.

This buggy below is done a similar way and it flex's really well. The front is this way for both uppers and lowers. Ansd on the rear the frame end of the uppers and axle end of the lowers are this configuration as well.

http://www.rebelrockrunners.org/gallery/d/12479-3/DSC00134.jpg
http://www.rebelrockrunners.org/gallery/d/12467-3/DSC00130.jpg
http://www.rebelrockrunners.org/gallery/d/12560-3/DSC00176.jpg[/img]

[Jeep07]

Awesome. What springs are you gonna run? I think you told me this already but I forgot.

Gonna look good.

[HotRodYJ]

Awesome. What springs are you gonna run? I think you told me this already but I forgot.

Gonna look good.

Stock TJ fronts

[pplblazerdude]

ahh good deal. I kinda figured it would work but I wanted to ask any way. You cleared it up for me. Thanks. Oh yea by the way this is awsome.

[Bluegill]

Mega :smokin: Brian! ;-)

[Hokie_YJ]

:smokin: Now are you gonna come wheel with us? :lol:

[HotRodYJ]

:smokin: Now are you gonna come wheel with us? :lol:
Depends on if it will stay together or not :roll:

[Hokie_YJ]

Sure it will. :lol:

[BillM]

Get-r-done and come to Grayrock with us....;)

[HotRodYJ]

Been working a little more on the Heep. These are the lower coil mounts that will weld to the axle tube.

http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Lower_coil_mounts.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Lower_Coil_Mount.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_welded_stud.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Coil_Retainer.jpg

I'll bend the ends of the retainer plate over a bit before paint and it will get a nylock nut also. Below is the material to make the upper coil buckets. The upper buckets will be an integral part of the frame therefore they must be very strong. I'll be cutting away the stock frame from about the axle centerline back and rebuilding the frame from the buckets back to and including the rear crossmember/bumper. This is 6" Sched 40 pipe. It is 6.625" OD, 6.065" ID (perfect for a 5" OD spring), and wall thickness of 0.28". I'll be using my old U bolt plates to cap the upper buckets with since they are already 6" square. Trim off the corners and they should fit easily.

http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Upper_coil_bucket_material.jpg

[HotRodYJ]

ALOT more work done on the YJ today. It's actually sitting on it's own weight now although it still doesn't have a trac bar yet so it sways easily from side to side. Really weird feeling. Still more welding to do including frame work and the Trac Bar, but I hope to get most all of that done tomorrow. I took a few more pics but they wont load from my home computer for some reason. I'll have to load them from work in a couple of days.

[HotRodYJ]

I tried taking a few more pics last night but then my camera decided to stop working. This is all I was able to get.

http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Picture_001.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Picture_002.jpg
http://www.4x4grace.com/Coppermine/albums/userpics/10013/normal_Picture_003.jpg

[BillM]

That is just looking sweet there Brian.

[pplblazerdude]

awsome man.

[Want2Wheel]

That is a great job. Keep it up, and keep the pictures coming.

[BlueCrawler]

Looking good. Are you doing the front as well? I bent my leaf up front and am planning to link the front now just wondered if you had any Ideas or set ups for the front.

[HotRodYJ]

Looking good. Are you doing the front as well? I bent my leaf up front and am planning to link the front now just wondered if you had any Ideas or set ups for the front.

Not in the near future, but yeah that would be the next step. I had always figured a 2 link radius arm type set-up with a trac bar in the front like Wes did on the Xterra, but again in the interst of reliability, I would maybe lean toward a 5 link set-up like I've done on the rear (conventional straight 4 link plus a trac bar). Have to wait and see how everything works out. It's more expensive having 5 links, but...we'll see.

I also bent a front leaf a couple years ago. Amazing how easily that can be done with a front shackle set-up.

Clint, a little more info on how I mounted the frame end of the upper links with a vertical bolt instead of the conventional horizontal bolt. Even without the fancy high-misalignment spacers to give the rod end more useable movement, the rearend will drop enough that the coils fall out. So yes they work just fine with plenty of movement. This discussion did get me thinking however and since I need 10 rod ends instead of the standard 8, I either neeeded to use a couple of 3/4x3/4 ends I already had, or order another $50 worth for two more 3/4x5/8 like the rest of the set-up is using. I decided to get my Dad to machine some high misalignment spacers for my 3/4x3/4 rod ends so I can use a 5/8 bolt and gain the extra travel for these upper link locations. So now I have more movement than I can possibly use and more custom made parts on my rig 8)

Oh and Andy hooked me up with a 20 gallon fuel tank so now I can play a little bit longer when she's done. Thanks Bud! :wink:

[pplblazerdude]

Sounds awesome dude.

[Hokie_YJ]

That rear crossmember is flat out sick!! It's looking great man, can't wait until you bring it out to play.

[Dino1967]

very nice brian

[HotRodYJ]

That rear crossmember is flat out sick!! It's looking great man, can't wait until you bring it out to play.

Thanks Ben, that's exactly the effect I was going for :lol: And thanks for saving my old rear bumper. I hated the thought of cuttin it up to make this one instead. I'm glad that old bumper will still get use on your rig now. :wink:

[Junkster]

I personally like the new bumper. :lol:
The Tail light idea worked out great. I thought that you were going to leave off the D-Ring pull tabs. What changed your mind?

[HotRodYJ]

I personally like the new bumper. :lol:
The Tail light idea worked out great. I thought that you were going to leave off the D-Ring pull tabs. What changed your mind?

Needed to cap the ends of the tube anyway, so why not. With the pentle though they should never really be used, but they help protect the lights also.

[Hokie_YJ]

That rear crossmember is flat out sick!! It's looking great man, can't wait until you bring it out to play.

Thanks Ben, that's exactly the effect I was going for :lol: And thanks for saving my old rear bumper. I hated the thought of cuttin it up to make this one instead. I'm glad that old bumper will still get use on your rig now. :wink:

I'm gonna clean it up and re-paint it, and hopefully I'll have it on my Jeep by this weekend. :grin:

[HotRodYJ]

More leasons learned on this project. I finally got all the brackets and all 5 links done and installed, coil buckets finalized etc. I found that with the 5 link set-up, once I added the trac bar, the geometry will bind and wont allow the axle to twist freely as it should. I did not do any calcs on the geometry, I thought I'd wing it and learn as I go instead using the trial and error method to help me understand as I go. The 4 primary bars aren't exactly parrallel to one another, but in my mind they are as close to parrallel as the stock TJ geometry I've seen. I'm still not really clear as to why the links are binding, but one thing is for sure by removing one upper link everything free's back up and moves really really well. Obviousley the geometry of the two upper links isn't getting along with the movement of the trac bar, so for now it looks like I'll be running a three link set-up with a trac bar (two lowers, one upper, and the trac bar). I've always wondered why the featured rigs in the mags would want to run a three link with trac bar up front (trianulated 4 in the rear). Now I'm starting to understand why.

One day when I get around to reworking the exhaust I will then triangulate the upper links and do away with the trac bar. Basiclly go the route that everyone else already has...I knew there had to be a reason behind it. The best way for me to learn is to try it and see why or why not. I have learned tons on this project and will very likely learn much more before it's all over.

Right now I basically have to do shocks and a d-shaft then plumb the fuel system and it's back on the road, one link short of the original plan :lol:

[BillM]

Andy talked to a guy over the weekend about this very thing Brian. He said you would break D60 shafts running the 4 link and to just remove the upper on the passenger side of the front. All due to binding.

[HotRodYJ]

Andy talked to a guy over the weekend about this very thing Brian. He said you would break D60 shafts running the 4 link and to just remove the upper on the passenger side of the front. All due to binding.

It was very odd, I could let the axle hang flexed and go around and could not twist the 4 main links at all. I was checking to be sure the rod ends were not binding and still had room to move, and found all 4 main bars where in a bind. Not out of travel on the ends, just in such a bind you could not twist them by hand. I removed one upper link and now all the remaining links are free to twist easily by hand even with the axle flexed way past my limits. I removed the upper link on the drive side since thats where the trac bar also attach's in close proximity. I will flex it the opposite direction tonight and be sure the opposite flex still moves really well. I found out very quickly, it flex's so easily you cannot have a jack supporting the rear by the diff and remove one of the wheels. The side to side unbalance will roll the Jeep sideways and off the jack :shock: . Didn't actually fall off on me, but I was surprised everything would move that easily just by removing one wheel. Definetly have to get jack stands under there just to remove a wheel if both are off the ground.

So what is the general opinion here? Woudl I be okay running a strauight 3 link and a trac bar on the rear? I see it doen alot on the front axle, but rarely on the back. I will definetly be working to trianulate the rear, but short term, what do you think?

[Pitch]

A single link centered on the diff will do just perfect.

[Jeep07]

A single link centered on the diff will do just perfect.

This is the way I see most 3 links done.

Have you relocated your gas tank yet? Thats the only problem I see with moving to the center of the diff.

[HotRodYJ]

A single link centered on the diff will do just perfect.

This is the way I see most 3 links done.

Have you relocated your gas tank yet? Thats the only problem I see with moving to the center of the diff.

Yes. The tank had to go when I moved the axle 12" further back :lol: Not bolted down yet, but the tank will be inside in place of the rear seat. Triangulated three link wouldn't be much different than triangulated 4. Still have to move all the exhaust and build the bridge. I've already got both upper links built so I 'll just swing them in to a bridge one day and do that, but until then...?

[Jeep07]

I think it will work with 3 links and a panhard. Its very similar to the Xterra's setup The pivot point is different on the frame side and thats about it. Just drive it slow at first :) And keep the extra upper link with you incase something does happen.

[BillM]

I agree with Drake and Wes on this. I know I am no engineer but I think you will be good. Might be a little fishy on the road at speed though.

[HotRodYJ]

Been pidling along this week, and not really done too much on it. I did find last night that I can run the stock 20 gallon YJ tank all the way to the back against the tailgate and there is still enough room to mount the back seat if I slide it forward a few inch's. Eevn I can sit fairly comfortably in the relocated back seat if I sit in the middle and use the space between the front seats to extend my legs. Perfect for a child, or even an adult when need be. This makes me happy, I hated loosing the rear seat. :wink:

[HotRodYJ]

I triangulated my upper links today. I am MUCH happier with the way it all works now. Fuel system with filler neck vapor lines, etc is all done except for the one line to the motor. I'll be putting a new fuel pump in while I'm at it so waiting on that. Upper shock mount made. I have to rework my exhaust now so the list gets a little longer :roll: .

It's still getting closer to getting this thing back on the road. I can't wait. :smokin:

[Dino1967]

kool

[BillM]

Sounding good Brian.

[Bluegill]

;-)

[HotRodYJ]

Been a while since I've posted up about my progress, mostly because it's been awhile since I've done any real work on the Heep. I have been working a little on it tying up loose ends and it's all but done now with very little left to do. I've been comtemplating doing a flat skid before I cut my d-shaft, figure if I'm going to do it nows the best time. I hate to prolong the work though cause I really want to get it back driveable again and use it finally. The problem with doing a flat skid is I set my motor.trans.t-case very low in the frame years ago when I first built it to keep the COG as low as possible. If I flat skid, all three motor mounts have to be relocated to lift the motor-t-case assembly 4" higher in the frame. Well the Heep made my discission for me as I was looking at everything last night. My Chris Alston motor mount crossmsmber has a large hole torn in the top of it. So looks like the motor mounts have to be totally reworked anyway even if I don't flat skid. :cry:

[BillM]

Kinda bittersweet eh? Good thing you noticed that little problem though.